Dan Nigro’s emo-infused ’00s indie band As Tall As Lions was always on the brink of mass success, but Nigro has since realized that there’s one thing they’re missing: I have decided. It’s a great producer. “I always wish I had had someone who helped me change a little bit when I was younger,” he says. “Like, ‘That’s cool, but you should listen to this Neil Young song.'” Negro ended up working for two of the most exciting new pop stars in years, Chapel Lawn and Olivia Rodrigo. He ended up playing exactly that role, serving as producer, co-writer, and key collaborator between the two.
He has recently been nominated for six Grammy Awards, including Producer of the Year, most of them for Roan’s instant classic debut album, The Rise and Fall of a Midwest Princess, and her follow-up -This is due to his work on the single “Good Luck Babe!” “I feel like part of my DNA as a producer is to help people avoid making the same mistakes I did,” he added.
The punky crunch of “Good 4 U,” the Queen-esque mini-operetta structure of “Vampire,” the festival-shaking sweep of “Red Wine Supernova,” the dual guitar solos of “Pink Pony Club,” Negro is on the pop charts. helped reconnect it to the rock canon. But the impetus for these seemingly atavistic movements almost always comes from the artists themselves. “It’s always great to get their fresh perspective. ‘It may be old to you, but it’s not old to me.’ Podcast or Spotify or hit the play button above.”
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After moving to California in 2011, he found early success writing advertising jingles and working with Ariel Rechtscheid and Justin Risen on Sky Ferreira’s debut film, but it soon became clear that he I spent many years following radio trends as I entered what I would call the “Dark Ages.” After deciding to instead focus on finding young artists to love, he connected with Roan and they quickly recorded “Pink Pony Club” and “Naked in Manhattan.” However, she found that her label at the time, Atlantic Records, was not enthusiastic. He blames the disruptive focus at the time on virality and instant success. “Nobody was looking at it for posterity or cataloging it,” he says. When Atlantic fired Lorne, he saw this as an opportunity and started his own label, Amusement Records, to promote her music.
Currently working on Lorne’s next album and Conan Gray, Nigro is still looking for new artists and insists on the importance of long-term artistic development. “When you look at careers that feel like legends over 20 or 30 years, those careers weren’t built on a few hit singles,” he says.
What can someone with a rock sensibility learn from the pop world and vice versa?
The funny thing is, to me they are the same. Pop music is rock music. Similar code is used. A song is a song, and you dress it up with production. You can also dress it up with a guitar. You can also dress it up with Juno synths. . Other producers ask me this all the time. ‘How do you write a song?’ ‘Cause we get in there and the first thing we do is build a track and the drums are pounding and it feels really good. Then I write a song to go with that track. ”Our songs are very vocal-focused. First, I write the song, and once I’m done writing it, I produce the song.
Looking back at As Tall As Lions, it can be hard to find hints of what’s to come. The songwriting is strong, but you’ve said that you always tried to make it pop more than the band members were comfortable with.
I hadn’t listened to our last record, You Can’t Take It With You, in years. I started listening to the song, but I felt like a lot of it was off topic. I know there were good intentions behind certain songs and the way we were going to produce them, but we always ended up going off track and always ended up wrong. I never felt like someone was helping me with those problems.
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Do you think it’s possible for the band to have chart success again, or do you think that’s not possible with the current structure of the industry?
I think there’s a world of great chart success for bands. I can’t name any specific bands at this time, but I feel that as things cycle, there will come a time when the world is ready for it.
But now with computers, it’s harder to form a band. When I was 16 or 17, the only way to make music was to get together with a drummer and bass player. Whereas kids today can think, “Oh, I want to write a song and I want it to sound good.” You don’t need anyone else to do that for you. ”In general, people are just less inclined to come together to make music. Because you don’t have to. Therefore, there are only (fewer) bands.
Two songs on Olivia’s second album were recorded live with a band, right?
“All American Bitch” and “Ballad of a Homeschool Girl” – Tracks 1 and 5. She loved the band’s live atmosphere and how the songs felt when they went on tour and how raw it felt. She was really good at teaching me. Because we have this imaginary rule that says, “This is not how music is made today.” She said, “I want it to feel really raw and live and have a fluctuating tempo.” I’m like, “Okay, I know exactly how to do it.”
Her debut song “Good 4 U” seems like a great example of a rock song with a modern sensibility. There are very few bands that move their instruments in and out like you do.
I think people are surprised that this song was created completely inside a box. In fact, there is one instrument recorded live – the hi-hat. For this song, I felt like I needed to give it an element that would make it feel like only a drummer could actually play this song. We introduced the hi-hat and worked on all the hi-hat patterns to make it sound like a live drummer.
Chapel Lawn was fired from Atlantic Records after hearing “The Pink Pony Club.” Are you surprised they couldn’t hear their songs?
There was a time when record labels were only looking for things that went viral, and that was one of the saddest times in music for me. I received numerous calls from record companies. “There’s this artist.” They put this 15-second clip on the internet. It’s not literally the song, it’s part of the song. Could you collaborate with that artist to make a song? ” People started finding these tidbits of information and trying to make whole works out of them. These artists don’t have a thorough understanding of how record labels work, and they don’t even write complete songs.
The record label was not focused on developing artists of any kind. A lot of the record label philosophy was literally just get the songs and put them out there and make money. No one wanted to look at it for posterity or how to create a catalogue.
“Feminomenon” is the perfect opening track for Chappell’s album. Because this song encapsulates both sides of her, as a pensive singer-songwriter and an incredibly fun pop artist.
That’s exactly why I love that song so much. When Chappell was still on her old label, there was a conversation that she couldn’t be either, it had to be pop music or sad singer-songwriter music. I remember being angry because I know her personality and it’s both. Not only can she be both, she sounds great at being both.
After a workshop in the studio, I came up with “Femininomenon”. Then we felt this wasn’t really engaging enough for 4 minutes. Then somehow, to be honest, I forget how it happened, but at the time I was like, “I did a dramatic dramatic change and actually started the song and did a complete fake-out.” I was like, “What will happen if I go?” I just remember us (both of us) being like, “Oh, this is the intro to your record, because this is you.” I don’t think artists often create songs that paint a complete picture. So I think I was really lucky to be able to make that song.
“Hot to Go!” “It was such a big swing, and I totally connected. But it takes courage to make a song like that, because it can completely fail.” How did it work?
If we hadn’t gotten along so well, we couldn’t have made that song. Max Martin uses the phrase “dare to suck,” and sometimes you need the courage to suck. Chappell is very confident and because of our relationship, it’s okay to be vulnerable or come to the studio with crazy ideas and not be judged.
I remember she came to me with the idea and I thought, “Yeah, let’s do it.” I made all the songs in 2 hours. Certain artists have to be confident and confident to stand on the microphone and sing. If I got up on the microphone and sang the same lyrics and the same melody, I would think, “That can’t be true.” It’s her and how wonderful she is.
What’s the status of Chappell’s next album?
I don’t have much to report. It’s just the beginning. We’ve written some great songs that we’re really excited about, and there will be more over time. Chappell is very confident in what he does and it always shows in his music.
Do you think it will come out next year?
I think it’s too early to say that.
